Flag Pole Ideas

[HikerFedEx]

#48656

😥 Looking for some HELP redesigning a 30+ Foot pole for Zealand (or any wooded summit). 😕

Don’t worry – we’ll have a flag up there Saturday – one way or the other! But we’d rather not have to tie a mast half way up a tree or plant a semi tall one on the ground that doesn’t reach over the trees. We’re determined but running shy of time and ideas.

We HAVE one of those 23′ Painter’s telescoping poles from Home Depot and it works pretty good up to that height. But that’s not enough to get over Zealand’s trees.

We’d designed and trialed several total PVC versions of our tall pole to get over Zealand’s trees; At 23-27 feet they work fine. But at 30-35 feet we can’t seem to stand them up during our trials – they bend over way too much in the stand up process. The top bends all the way back to the ground as we try to “walk it up”, moving toward the base. I think they’d be ok once guyed out, but it seems impossible to stand it up – it bends faster than we can stand it.

Currently we’re using 10′ sections of 2″ PVC at the base and mid poles; We’ve trialed uncut poles: 3 10’x 2″ sections; We’ve trialed 2 10’x 2″ plus a 10’x1 1/2″ section and other combos of poles cut in 4′ sections. But the result is the same with anything over 27′.

I also trialed 2 of those Home Depot 23′ poles tied together last nite, only extendeding 2 of the 2 sections each for a total of 30′. But I bent the $*#! out of the upper telescoping pole, rendering it useless now.

Tomorrow we hope to trial SMALLER diameter PVC (10′ sections of 1 1/4″ and/or 1 1/2″ poles). But we’re running outta time now. We need a functional solution ASAP.

Is there a trick to standing up the pole?
Does it work better with smaller diameter (lighter) PVC poles? [Is our mistake trying to use heavier pipes thinking they’re stronger?]

Please help! 💡

Gary :flag:
“FedEx”

hikerfedex@gmail.com

[New Hampshire]

#48657

My buddy McRat has also had issues in the past trying for super long poles. I don’t think he really found a viable solution. The only thing I can think of would require a few more people, and that would be having people hold your guy lines as you raise the pole up so as to counter and stabilize. If you have three guy lines, and assuming 2 people raising and adding sections then this means a minimum of 5 people.

Don’t know if that helps.

Brian

[HikerFedEx]

#48658

I’m confused. We preassembled the entire pole then tried to raise it.

Are you suggesting raising say a 10′ section vertically, stabilize with guylines, then lift that up higher vertically, adding say a 4′ section to the bottom, and repeat?

Gary
“FedEx” :flag:

[McRat]

#48659

I think Brian is suggesting that you attach guy line points at the lower sections, raise the pole as best as possible and then tie off the guy lines for support.

Though others have been successful with smaller PVC pipes, we switched to a larger diameter (4″ drainpipe) pole section and that greatly reduced the swaying problem you get with the 1″ PVC at lengths greater than 20′.

It is worth noting that the record length (and I may be wrong) still holds at 38′ on Zealand by Dirtgirl using smaller PVC with multiple guylines. We got an aluminum bottom-loading tripod design up to 39 feet briefly, but it didn’t last long enough to call it a success.

[HikerFedEx]

#48660

ya, actually RAISING/STANDING IT UP Initially IS our problem – not the guying it out part. After completely assembling it on the ground, our 30+ foot prototype made with 2″ diameter PVC bent too much to stand it up. It actually formed an inverted “U” when we try to stand it up. To use guy lines to assist we’d have to throw them over a large tree limb to use as a lever point. Can’t rely on that being available. And how would you raise such a 30′ pole on an open summit that has no trees anyway?? [Did I misunderstand??]

I couldn’t decide if it’s the added weight of the 2″ PVC at the top (Versus a lighter smaller diameter top) causing it to bend too much or is it that we need to use 3″ or 4″ diameter pvc for the lower first 20 feet to lessen the bending at the 20′ point.

Any thoughts??

:flag: :flag:

[New Hampshire]

#48661

@HikerFedEx wrote:

I’m confused. We preassembled the entire pole then tried to raise it.

Are you suggesting raising say a 10′ section vertically, stabilize with guylines, then lift that up higher vertically, adding say a 4′ section to the bottom, and repeat?

Gary
“FedEx” :flag:

Yes, section at a time and with a person on each guy line to hold and stabilize as you raise each section up. Not even sure that would work, but it seems like it should.

Brian

[TrekMan]

#48662

We have used conduit, 20 feet for 6 years now, good and not too big in wind. Guy ropes are a key ingredient. I would hoist section by section against a tree trunk for stabilization. I see no reason the 10 feet more could not be added all working from the ground more or less. Conduit sizes are 1-1/4 and 1″, could add 1-1/2 at the bottom, all attach with screwed couplings (3 sections per 12′).

[HikerFedEx]

#48663

THANKS SO MUCH for the tips – I had no idea. (Duh!) 8) We ended up building a 34′ pole (capable of up to 41′) using the vertical building technique (once I was enlightened!). At Home Depot, we found some expensive ($27 each) but very strong 6′ x 1 1/2″ dia. aluminum poles with interlocking threads at the butt and top end. Essentially we screwed the 4 – 6′ sections together and added a 10′ x 1 1/2″ diameter PVC top pole for a total height of 34′. I trialed these at home, starting with 2 – 6′ sections and the 10′ section preassembled lying on the ground; then I (alone) easily raised it to vertical and leaned the top against my house; then I pushed it higher up, still leaning one contact point against my house, and added 6′ sections to the bottom; eventually the mast reached well beyond my roof. I felt this would simulate the effect of using 3 manned guylines to stablilize the top sections while we pushed the bottom higher vertically and added mast sections. Using a pulley attached with a eye bolt as a halyard, I attached 100′ feet of line to raise the flag like a normal flagpole. This method of raising the actual flag allows for building, raising, and stabilizing the mast first, avoiding the flag itself catching wind and acting like a huge sail – demolishing the pole before it is stabilized. We planned to fly our 6’x10′ flag and hoped to fly the 8’x12′ monster! I successfully trialed a 4’x6′ flag at home. :flag: At the base, I also added a 2″ x 5′ PVC pipe sleeved inside a 3″x46″ long PVC pipe to the bottom of the the metal pole. (I placed the base of the metal pole inside the 2″ PVC pipe and the 2″ pipe inside the 3″ PVC pipe, creating a collapsable/telescopic sleeving effect at the base. NOT using the additional PVC bottom section (or with the PVC bottom section fully collapsed – without expanding the bottom PVC “telescoping base”), would allow us to build and use a fixed length of 16′, 22′, 28′ or 34′ at the summit depending on how many 6′ pipes we added to the bottom (depending on conditions and tree height). If we added the telescoping sleeved PVC pipes to the bottom we could raise it further in 1′ increments to 38′ using the 2″ pipe with bolts as pins, and up to 41′ also using the 3″ pipe with bolts as pins. This bottom telescopic plan was never tested under the weighted load of the mast, but I see no reason it would not have worked. Expanding the telescoping sleeved PVC base would require a second set of 3 guylines attached at mid height to manage the added height. I don’t know how unstable the top might become, but I suspect it wouldn’t change much with tethering. (The highest guylines were attached at the bottom of the top 10′ PVC section.)

On summit day 9/11 :flag: , we opted to leave behind the bottom PVC poles, as 34′ would likely be plenty. It was. The trees at Zealand were roughly 18-20′. We accidentally partially broke one screw tip on one metal pole. So we actually only used 3 -6′ poles + the 1-‘ PVC top, and raised it to 28′ which was plenty – the entire 10′ top section was above the trees. So we guyed it out and raised our monster flag – the 8′ x 12’ flag. SUCCESS!!! :flag: :flag:

In hindsight, the 6′ poles sections proved difficult to manage when trying to raise the base and additional 6′. Shorter 4′ sections would have worked much better (like the previous 23′ version I’d built at home with 4′ PVC sections bolted together). Raising the pole 6′ more means holding the base of the pole over your head holding just the very bottom of the pole. Crazy! After one OOPS (breaking the tip of one pole not quite screwed in yet) we tried again with success. Once the flag was raised the halyard line was used to secure the top of the pole (above the flag) from one direction only, as a hedge against the wind. This could require monitoring and retethering if wind direction changed suddenly.

So for future I’ll probably build a very tall PVC mast in 4′ sections with a simple internal pipe to connect/reinforce the connection, and use bolts as pins and/or duct tape to “hold” the joint in place. For a very tall pole and a large flag, I think 2″ diameter top pole might withstand strong winds better and at the base perhaps even 3″ diameter PVC might be worth the added weight.

THANKS everybody for the ideas we worked off to redesign our plan!

:flag: 8) :beer: 8) :flag:

[raven]

#48664

Hi all – just posting some pics of the basic set up I’ve used in case it gives anyone some ideas.

https://picasaweb.google.com/118011327044647058954/FlagPoleSetUp?authkey=Gv1sRgCJjCwcfx4vTteg#5781887314137255106

It’s got its flaws and strong points but it’s a pretty stable set up especially if the bottom of the mast can be held in place (using rocks, etc.)

The pic with flag is this set up on Cabot 2010

[Author]

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