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So here’s an update….
the small “camping” group will take Lowe’s Path to Gray Knob and reside overnite Saturday (backup option is Crag Camp), then finish the assault Sunday morning with us.
The Sunday morning hiking group will take Lowe’s Path.
AMC Guidebook estimates:
Lowe’s Path
3.2 miles ~3hours 10min,gaining 3050ft to Gray Knob
1.5 miles ~1hours 20min, gaining 1400ft to Mt Adams
4.7miles ~4 1/2hours, gaining 5450ft total to Mt AdamsThat’s a pretty steep climb, but great views.
Our assignment is to hoist our flag by 12pm flying it until 2pm;
Therefore I recommend an early start Sunday…
Plan to park (probably at Lowe’s Store) & be ready to hike @ 7am;
Not much to carry, but we’ll gladly share the load.
If you’re not there by 7am, we’ll start up & see you up top. We’ll meet the campers along the way or up top.
If you have other plans, kindly email, call, or text a heads up. Glad to have you along.
Bring snacks, cameras, Patriotic “stuff”, etc.!
:flag: :flag: :flag: :flag:in reply to: Wildcat Mt web site #54676We wondered that too. I’m sure half mast is more appropriate for true respect. But it would pose serious logistics in some cases – namely the taller masts and wooded summits.
I suppose in theory we could add lightweight weaker mast sections to the top of our poles, to simulate flying our FOT48 at half mast. (For those of us who use a halyard/pulley system we could add a lightweight top section to very briefly raise the flag to full mast, the quickly lower it to the stronger half mast height.
Any thoughts??? 8)
in reply to: Flag Pole Ideas #48663THANKS SO MUCH for the tips – I had no idea. (Duh!) 8) We ended up building a 34′ pole (capable of up to 41′) using the vertical building technique (once I was enlightened!). At Home Depot, we found some expensive ($27 each) but very strong 6′ x 1 1/2″ dia. aluminum poles with interlocking threads at the butt and top end. Essentially we screwed the 4 – 6′ sections together and added a 10′ x 1 1/2″ diameter PVC top pole for a total height of 34′. I trialed these at home, starting with 2 – 6′ sections and the 10′ section preassembled lying on the ground; then I (alone) easily raised it to vertical and leaned the top against my house; then I pushed it higher up, still leaning one contact point against my house, and added 6′ sections to the bottom; eventually the mast reached well beyond my roof. I felt this would simulate the effect of using 3 manned guylines to stablilize the top sections while we pushed the bottom higher vertically and added mast sections. Using a pulley attached with a eye bolt as a halyard, I attached 100′ feet of line to raise the flag like a normal flagpole. This method of raising the actual flag allows for building, raising, and stabilizing the mast first, avoiding the flag itself catching wind and acting like a huge sail – demolishing the pole before it is stabilized. We planned to fly our 6’x10′ flag and hoped to fly the 8’x12′ monster! I successfully trialed a 4’x6′ flag at home. :flag: At the base, I also added a 2″ x 5′ PVC pipe sleeved inside a 3″x46″ long PVC pipe to the bottom of the the metal pole. (I placed the base of the metal pole inside the 2″ PVC pipe and the 2″ pipe inside the 3″ PVC pipe, creating a collapsable/telescopic sleeving effect at the base. NOT using the additional PVC bottom section (or with the PVC bottom section fully collapsed – without expanding the bottom PVC “telescoping base”), would allow us to build and use a fixed length of 16′, 22′, 28′ or 34′ at the summit depending on how many 6′ pipes we added to the bottom (depending on conditions and tree height). If we added the telescoping sleeved PVC pipes to the bottom we could raise it further in 1′ increments to 38′ using the 2″ pipe with bolts as pins, and up to 41′ also using the 3″ pipe with bolts as pins. This bottom telescopic plan was never tested under the weighted load of the mast, but I see no reason it would not have worked. Expanding the telescoping sleeved PVC base would require a second set of 3 guylines attached at mid height to manage the added height. I don’t know how unstable the top might become, but I suspect it wouldn’t change much with tethering. (The highest guylines were attached at the bottom of the top 10′ PVC section.)
On summit day 9/11 :flag: , we opted to leave behind the bottom PVC poles, as 34′ would likely be plenty. It was. The trees at Zealand were roughly 18-20′. We accidentally partially broke one screw tip on one metal pole. So we actually only used 3 -6′ poles + the 1-‘ PVC top, and raised it to 28′ which was plenty – the entire 10′ top section was above the trees. So we guyed it out and raised our monster flag – the 8′ x 12’ flag. SUCCESS!!! :flag: :flag:
In hindsight, the 6′ poles sections proved difficult to manage when trying to raise the base and additional 6′. Shorter 4′ sections would have worked much better (like the previous 23′ version I’d built at home with 4′ PVC sections bolted together). Raising the pole 6′ more means holding the base of the pole over your head holding just the very bottom of the pole. Crazy! After one OOPS (breaking the tip of one pole not quite screwed in yet) we tried again with success. Once the flag was raised the halyard line was used to secure the top of the pole (above the flag) from one direction only, as a hedge against the wind. This could require monitoring and retethering if wind direction changed suddenly.
So for future I’ll probably build a very tall PVC mast in 4′ sections with a simple internal pipe to connect/reinforce the connection, and use bolts as pins and/or duct tape to “hold” the joint in place. For a very tall pole and a large flag, I think 2″ diameter top pole might withstand strong winds better and at the base perhaps even 3″ diameter PVC might be worth the added weight.
THANKS everybody for the ideas we worked off to redesign our plan!
:flag: 8) :beer: 8) :flag:
Very nice touch with the approach flags. I’m not at all a Bush fan – but that’s a very moving quote. One worth remembering. Thank you for reminding me how united we once were. Maybe Flags on the 48 can somehow unite us again. :flag:
in reply to: Flag Pole Ideas #48660ya, actually RAISING/STANDING IT UP Initially IS our problem – not the guying it out part. After completely assembling it on the ground, our 30+ foot prototype made with 2″ diameter PVC bent too much to stand it up. It actually formed an inverted “U” when we try to stand it up. To use guy lines to assist we’d have to throw them over a large tree limb to use as a lever point. Can’t rely on that being available. And how would you raise such a 30′ pole on an open summit that has no trees anyway?? [Did I misunderstand??]
I couldn’t decide if it’s the added weight of the 2″ PVC at the top (Versus a lighter smaller diameter top) causing it to bend too much or is it that we need to use 3″ or 4″ diameter pvc for the lower first 20 feet to lessen the bending at the 20′ point.
Any thoughts??
:flag: :flag:
in reply to: Flag Pole Ideas #48658I’m confused. We preassembled the entire pole then tried to raise it.
Are you suggesting raising say a 10′ section vertically, stabilize with guylines, then lift that up higher vertically, adding say a 4′ section to the bottom, and repeat?
Gary
“FedEx” :flag:in reply to: Flag Pole Ideas #48656😥 Looking for some HELP redesigning a 30+ Foot pole for Zealand (or any wooded summit). 😕
Don’t worry – we’ll have a flag up there Saturday – one way or the other! But we’d rather not have to tie a mast half way up a tree or plant a semi tall one on the ground that doesn’t reach over the trees. We’re determined but running shy of time and ideas.
We HAVE one of those 23′ Painter’s telescoping poles from Home Depot and it works pretty good up to that height. But that’s not enough to get over Zealand’s trees.
We’d designed and trialed several total PVC versions of our tall pole to get over Zealand’s trees; At 23-27 feet they work fine. But at 30-35 feet we can’t seem to stand them up during our trials – they bend over way too much in the stand up process. The top bends all the way back to the ground as we try to “walk it up”, moving toward the base. I think they’d be ok once guyed out, but it seems impossible to stand it up – it bends faster than we can stand it.
Currently we’re using 10′ sections of 2″ PVC at the base and mid poles; We’ve trialed uncut poles: 3 10’x 2″ sections; We’ve trialed 2 10’x 2″ plus a 10’x1 1/2″ section and other combos of poles cut in 4′ sections. But the result is the same with anything over 27′.
I also trialed 2 of those Home Depot 23′ poles tied together last nite, only extendeding 2 of the 2 sections each for a total of 30′. But I bent the $*#! out of the upper telescoping pole, rendering it useless now.
Tomorrow we hope to trial SMALLER diameter PVC (10′ sections of 1 1/4″ and/or 1 1/2″ poles). But we’re running outta time now. We need a functional solution ASAP.
Is there a trick to standing up the pole?
Does it work better with smaller diameter (lighter) PVC poles? [Is our mistake trying to use heavier pipes thinking they’re stronger?]Please help! 💡
Gary :flag:
“FedEx”in reply to: I need to bow out #54604May God comfort you in this time of deep loss and help you to somehow carry on….
Gary
“FedEx” :flag:The AMC Guidebook suggests the first 2.7 miles takes about 1hr 45min hike time to Zealand Falls (gaining +650ft); then another 3 miles in 2hrs 20 min to Zealand summit spur (+ additional 1620ft) then it’s just 0.1mi in 5 minutes and +10 feet from there;
So that’s about 4 hours NOT counting any additional breaks. 8)
So I think we should shoot for 7am to start hiking;
Any thoughts?
Gary/FedEx :flag:
:flag: HOWDY HOWDY FELLOW FLAG SUMMITERS!!! :flag:
Sorry for the late route/plan info…..I just got on board!
First, WELCOME to all! And THANKS for participating!
As I understand it our only real goal is to reach the summit of Zealand and put up our flag no later than Noon.
I’m kind of assuming we’d start up Zealand Trail fairly early Saturday morning.
I don’t have my guidebook handy, so from memory, it’s ~2.7 miles to Zealand Hut and ~5.6 miles to the summit. I don’t recall their suggested estimates of time.
More importantly I don’t have any idea how “fast” everybody likes to hike. I tend to hike at a good pace with few breaks, but groups generally hike a bit slower. No rush, we’re here to enjoy!
It’s not a bad hike up, but it’ll take ??? 3+ hours at a good pace, without much delay and a few short breaks as needed.
I’d also like to be sure we have at least 1 hour available to setup, allowing for Murphy’s unforeseen glitches.
I’d suggest we actually start hiking about 7-7:30 am.
Thus I would suggest the goal be to MEET anytime ????prior to 7 to allow at least a few minutes to say hello and allow for the inevitable guy “running late” – that will probably be me!
[If you wanna start later and hiker faster I’m ok with more sleep!!!]
MY friend “2Pak” (Mike) and I are field-testing the flag system tomorrow nite at home (in Connecticut). The 2 of us are probably capable of carrying everything up ourselves – but we are certainly willing to share the “fun” if you desire.
Anyone/everyone is welcome to hike up and/or carry up the flag setup – or meet us up there is you prefer. (We won’t feel slighted if you wander in later – or beat us up there if you’re gung ho for a sunrise view from the Whites)
Whatever floats your boat!
I’m sorry for the last minute plan – and quite open to any suggestions. I’m a minimal planner and generally pretty flexible.
Other random thoughts:
Bring a good lunch, scrumpious homemade snacks to share (Mmmmmm), plenty of beverages of choice, warm dry clothes for “chilling” at the summit, and cameras, and binoculars!
I certainly intend to hike down to Guyot for a look around at the other summit flags!
Feedback/opinions on the plan MUCH Welcomed!
Gary
(aka “FedEx” ) 8) 8) 8) -
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